Did Buddy & Maria have a child together? In the movie it stated Maria was pregnant before Buddy died, but on the website there is no mention about a child.

Thanks,

Cole

For once, the movie was partially right. When Buddy left on the Winter Dance Party Tour, Maria Elena was pregnant, which may have been part of the reason that Buddy didn't want to go on the tour. However, when Maria Elena heard about the crash, she miscarriaged and sadly lost the baby. NB: When she did remamrry, I believe that she did have children and now has grandchildren.

Maria Elena's children are Carlos (named after Buddy), Miguel and Elena.

How is her son Carlos named after Buddy? Unless, Carlos as in the spanish version of Charles, Buddy's real name..............?

You got it .

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris:
Maria Elena's children are Carlos (named after Buddy), Miguel and Elena.

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You have to wonder what her husband thought about his child being named after his wife's deceased first husband.

Julie

Ya no doubt. But when you think about it, we're talkin about the Buddy Holly here, so it was probably kind of an honor at the same time.Besides, he cant of expected her not to pay some homage to her late husband, because rightfully those should be Buddys kids, and you can bet she wished they were.

Was it ever said if the child that Maria Elena lost was a boy or girl?
It would be interesting as to what that child would have been like, would they have ridden on their dad's succes, getting into music simply because their dad had (though I can't imagine one of Buddy's kids not having an ounce of musical talent in their blood) or what? But maybe it was better someone up there arranged it this way, though we still lost Buddy.

You know what I just realized, and it's the saddest thing too, in a way? Buddy and Maria Elena never shared a Valentine's Day together.
Think about it. If they got married no more than a month after he met her, that would put us about beginning of July. He died February 3, 9 days before Valentine's day. Weird, and really sad, in a way.

I think it was too early to have been determined as a boy or girl, afterall, they were only married in August. But I think that whatever it was, it would have carried on Buddys legend with pride, and of course, plenty of talent.I, too, was thinking of how Buddy and Maria never spent a Valentines togerther, and how horrible that must have been for Maria.Valentines is a day for lovers, and to have your husband killed a little more than a week before? Thats pretty hard to deal with.I could just imagine the romatic stuff that Buddy would have done to impress his new bride.I mean, just look at how he proposed to her. Its obvious that he was a pretty romantic guy, and was aware of what would impress his lady. But you know of what I always couldnt help but think when it came to Maria? Although Im sure this doesnt have a shred of truth to it, I could never help but think of Maria as, kind of a gold digger,you know?Even though Im know she loved Buddy a great deal, it always seems to be the first thing that comes to mind when you have a celebrity marrying, well an ordinary person I guess you would say.It just always seemed odd that she could fall in love and marry someone so fast, but I guess that what you call love at first sight huh? And its obvious from photos and stories that they both loved each other greatly, so I dont think that she was like that at all.Besides, Buddy wouldnt have married a woman like that, Im sure they were both in it for love and love alone.

Although Maria Elena was four years older than Buddy, we do have to remember that it was Buddy who proposed to her on the first date, so obviously it was he who really wanted to marry her, it's not like she had to cajole and trick, if you will, Buddy into proposing to her.
It does still bother me a bit, as much as they must have loved each other, that Maria Elena asks a pretty penny to use her late husband's name, and also there are rumours of whether or not she's hampering efforts to release what currently remains bootlegged of Buddy's.
Anyways.......I have no doubt that Buddy knew what would impress his lady....mind you, had he not been killed, he still would have been on the road on February 14. Still, I'm sure he would have made it up to her.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by buddy_blue:
Was it ever said if the child that Maria Elena lost was a boy or girl?
It would be interesting as to what that child would have been like, would they have ridden on their dad's succes, getting into music simply because their dad had (/QUOTE]

I've thought about that a lot. It is an awful lot of pressure on a child of a legend. People seem to expect the child to follow in the foot steps of their father. It doesn't always work out too well. Hank Williams Jr. had a lot to live up to. I think it cost him a lot. (I'm not particularly a H.W. Jr. fan, just using an example)
Having said that, I do wish she hadn't lost her baby. I always wonder what their child would have looked like.

Julie

I think there child would have been beautiful, as they were very good looking themselves.I too wish Maria Elena hadnt lost their baby, for several reasons. First of all, it probably would have made the loss of Buddy much easier to deal with, as some living part of him was still there, ya know? Secondly, Im sure the baby would have followed in his fathers footsteps, and carried on his legacy, even if he/she couldnt live up to it.Finally, Im sure that if we had a Buddy Jr around, then wed hear a hell of alot more of Buddy nowadays then we do.There would be someone to promote him, to get his music out to the younger generations.Mabey that whole Elvis or Buddy debate wouldnt be necessary.Oh how I wish.

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Im sure that if we had a Buddy Jr around, then wed hear a hell of alot more of Buddy nowadays then we do.

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True. Our local oldies stations don't play his music. I didn't even hear any of his songs on the anniversary of his death. They played American Pie, but no Buddy songs.

Julie

Well, you're lucky you heard American Pie. Although I heard some of his songs (mostly covers) a bit more than I usually do on the days leading up to his death, I didn't hear anything on the day of his death.
That must have been so hard for Maria Elena, dealing with two losses in such a short length of time. I too wish that she hadn't lost the baby, not only just because of the extra suffering of yet another loss, but also that she would have a bit of Buddy with her still.
Considering Buddy was a much bigger name than the Bopper, I feel that there is a bigger chance that had Buddy had a heir, then we would hear more of his stuff, but i also must point out that the Bopper did have a heir, and look at where that got him. I believe JP jr and his half siblings are arguing over who has the sole rights to the Bopper's music right now. I shouldn't be compariing Buddy and the Bopper like this, but seeing as how they are the only two that had or would have had heirs, this is my comparision. Forgive me.

quote:

Originally posted by crazy_for_buddy:
I think it was too early to have been determined as a boy or girl, afterall, they were only married in August.

How much pregnant was Maria Elena when she lost the baby, just out of curiousity?

Well Im not 100% postive on this, but from what I've read, somewhere between two and four months.In The Buddy Holly Story, she looks a little less than that, but then again, theres not much you can count on in that movie...anyway, thats about the span where a miscarrige is most probable, and after hearing that....well, it no wonder she lost the baby.

quote:

Originally posted by crazy_for_buddy:
Well Im not 100% postive on this, but from what I've read, somewhere between two and four months.In The Buddy Holly Story, she looks a little less than that, but then again, theres not much you can count on in that movie...anyway, thats about the span where a miscarrige is most probable, and after hearing that....well, it no wonder she lost the baby.

In the movie, the last scene they show of her in the apartment, she looks as if she is about 5 or 6 months. Of course, that was the movie.

She had to have been anywhere from 1-5 months pregnant, assuming she wasn't pregnant until after they married. But even still, they only knew each other for two months before.

That is something else I don't remember them mentioning in the Real Buddy Holly Story. Or am I mistaken?

Julie

Well, they kinda mention it in the Buddy Holly Story, though the timeline isn't very well shown. They do show a little bit in how impulsive Buddy was in asking her out, but now, thinking about it, I can't recall how they show the transition of the two of them toasting on the roof to the two of them in bed in the living room. No impulse move where he announces he's going to marry Maria Elena, heck, no wedding. It just is, and that's why I say the timeline of him being impulsive isn't well shown, then again, what is well shown in that movie?

There is an intriguing rumor that may be much more than rumor, according to Bill Griggs. He has independently talked to a few people closely acquainted with the Holley family, and it seems that they are in agreement that Buddy had an illegitimate child---the interviewees even mentioned the name of the mother. Understandably, Griggs won't confirm nor refute the story "until he has all the facts"... And there is a little-known story (told by Niki Sullivan) of Buddy quietly taking time to visit a home for unwed mothers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charles Austin,

I did see part of that interview where someone asks Bill Grigggs that question, but there's only the words "to be continued" where Bill Grigg's answer should be!
Where have you seen these interviews with members of the family, where did you see the interview with Bill Griggs, and where did you hear this story from J.I.?! Links, if possible, would be much appreciated.
However, after all this, I would still like to point out the use of the word rumour. Has yet to be proven

Thats a bunch of crap....I asked that question on the Bill Griggs message board and everyone said that it was nothing but a rumor...Mr Griggs himself gave me a link to a site and said that it would give me the answer....its a rumor. Anyways, wouldnt you think the mother would have announced that she was carrying Buddy Holly child? Especially after his death and in all the years since?Come on man, we would know 46 years later if we had another Holly around. Besides, Buddy isnt the type. It just wasnt his nature. And even if it came straight from Buddys mouth that it was true I wouldnt believe it.....I would never be able to listen to him or look at him again....

I can't see it being Buddy either, but I'm curious as to why all these people, particulary his family members, would say why they even suspect him fathering an illegimate child. And J.I. too, why would he say that about his best friend, never mind the issue of it being true or not. As I've already said, look at what the guy did in two years, and still there's recordings we haven't heard. When would he have had the time to sleep around!?

This is what Bill Griggs said, verbatim:

"I do not think I ever said that Buddy Holly had a child out of wedlock, I have always said that there is some evidence that he "maybe" had a child out of wedlock. This was covered when I did the interview with Dick Stewart on his 'Lance Monthly' on the internet. I do not want to be responsible for a rumor (as it is right now) becoming a so-called fact. If anyone has any other new facts or evidence pertaining to this, please email me privately and let's see if what you have matches with what I have."

The interesting fact is that Bill has talked to several unrelated people whose stories are all very consistent, even mentioning the name of the mother. As Bill says, while it is intriguing and suggests that Buddy maybe had an illegitimate child, he is still waiting for more evidence. And that is not a bunch of crap.

Here's a more complete thread of discussion on Bill's message board:
Buddy's Son/Daughter?

First of all, where are you getting your information? Because while I have heard of this rumour, and have even seen it published in a bio of Buddy, I have a hard time believing it. I have also seen part of this interview where Bill Griggs talks about this, but I haven't seen his fulll answer. Again, I have a hard time believing this. Call me naive, but here's why.
After seeing the Buddy Holly Story, Mrs. Holley was quite upset that her son should be portrayed as cussing like a sailor on shore leave and flipping the bird. In the Real Buddy Holly Story, Sonny Curtis is seen singing about his former bandmate, and states, "He never knocked nobody down in his life/He loved us all and he treated us right." People talk about Buddy's temper, but in the same breath, they talk about what a gentleman Buddy was, and this seems to much override his temper.
Now, how does this fit in with supposedly the same guy that fathered an illegimate child?
Futhermore, what would prompt J.I. to say that his friend was known to quietly take some time to visit a home for unwed mothers? I mean, hey, we've all got skeletons in our closets, leave them there, especially when it comes to talking about your late best friend.
crazy_for_buddy, what was the link that Bill Griggs sent you to to say that the rumour was not true, and has anyone seen the complete interview where Bill Griggs talks about this, because I can't find it.

I posted my link above, titled Buddy's Son/Daughter

Sorry, after reading that link it was Niki, and not J.I. that reportedly admitted to being on tour with Buddy when they visited an unwed mother's home. Still, again, I question this.
The boys were in a band, and I for one know that being in a band, playing music together, bonds you like nothing else can. There can be no doubt that even though part of the reason that Niki left the group was because he felt like Joe B and Jerry were ganging up on him to tease him, he never said that about Buddy. So what would prompt him to those comments that the band visited a home for unwed mothers? Why would he drag that out of the closet?
Without ganging up on me for suggesting this, let's suppose that the rumour is true. We've already seen that Buddy was an upstanding young man, enough people certainly say that about him, and I have this thing about not liking to speak ill of the dead. So let's suppose this quickly. Let's also suppose that being friends from childhood, the boys knew all of each others' secrets, so they would know this one too, so there would be no problem when Buddy disappeared for a couple of hours, they knew where he was. Even if they didn't know where Buddy had disappeared to for a couple of hours, well, they've known each other forever, I'm sure they all knew how to get something out of each other. The key word that I used was secret. It all comes back to why would any of his bandmates admit to Buddy doing something like that, be it true or not? I highly doubt there was a big payout for admiting it. It just sparks messages like these, and like I said, I have this thing about not liking to speak ill of the dead.
Oh Buddy, don't you see the mess you left behind? Crappy music for a decade, your music is hard to come by, and rumours left right and center. You left too soon.

Ya, thats the message board I was on. Yet further proof that this rumor is nothing but a bunch of crap thats ruining Buddys reputation. Noone seems to believe it...few ever will even if the truth does one day come out. On that forum, someone says that it would have happened back in his Texas days. Well, wasnt he like, 19 or 20 when he got into the industry? Lets not forget that he dated Echo, and theres no eveidence that he was ever untrue to her, which he would have had to have been if this is in fact the time frame that the pregnacy occured. Perhaps Buddy did have a sexual reletionship with this woman, and went to the home for unwed mothers to make sure that he didnt have a child out there. Which he must not have, because, while even the thought of him having sex out of wedlock doesent fit, the thought of him not providing for his child seems even more unlikely. He would have told Maria, he would have paid child support, he would have made sure everyone was taken care of. So ya, a buch of crap that is seriously damaging so many peoples respect for him needlesly. Even my hopes starting to falter, but until I hear that this rumor is 100% undoubtedly the truth, I'm gonna defend Buddys rep and innocence for the sake of my respect for the man.

Buddy and Echo were an item from the summer before high school, and in the States, doesn't that mean like the summer before grade nine? Not only is that awful young to be messing around like that, it also means that he would have to be cheating on Echo, because she was greatly religious. I actually think that that was part of the reason the two went their separate ways after high school, not only literally because of physical distance (Echo went to an out of town universtiy) but also becaise of Echo's religious beliefs and her parents saying Buddy's music was wrong, I believe she wasn't even allowed to dance. Buddy cheating? Does anyone else feel like this is starting to be like the Twilight Zone, where unheard of possibilities are heard of?
I just don't think that that's Buddy. You just can't hide something like that, I think it would be evident in his personality, in his body language. We've all seen how easily his body language betrayed him on the Winter Dance Party, though it can be seen in pictures he was trying to make an effort. There's just too much good of Buddy Holly for this to be true. And too many people respect him. Me included.

Ya, this is starting to feel like the twilight zone, cause this never happened. Buddy Holly was a man of respect and honour, and mabey I too have a thing about not speaking ill of the dead, but in Buddys, case theres no ill to speak of. The mother would have come out by now, Buddy would have told Maria, and she would have shot down these disgusting rumors by now. Buddy Holly seems like he was an awkward dork who didnt take crap from noone and who was too smart to make the mistake of getting a girl pregnant. His dreams of musical stardom were too real for him to have done somthing that could have screwed the whole thing up.My respect for him is too real to believe he could have done something like this. This didnt happen. No way in hell.

Well, I have never said it was anything but a rumor, even when discussing it with Bill. But let's not go off thinking Buddy wasn't a regular teenager, because he surely made the same mistakes that most teenage boys do---he got drunk once, to his mother's knowledge, and apologized profusely to her for that transgression. He smoked sometimes. He rear-ended somebody once while driving his dad's car. He trusted Norman Petty, who I still think took advantage of him and Jerry and Joe, because they were kids. And there's at least one account of him pulling a gun on somebody (as J.I. relates on the Real Buddy Holly Story DVD). So, let's not go off worshipping Buddy's virtue without acknowledging that he was fully capable of making the same mistakes that anyone can make. You can say this with a high degree of certainty---Buddy was squeaky clean compared to the majority of folks in his profession!

Well, I knew of all the "mistakes" you have listed, but when did he pull a gun on someone? And why? Man, I know he had a temper,but was it that bad? Anyways, I dont worship him, I just highly respect him and his music. And I think he deserves that respect, because your right, when compared to alot of people involved in the music industry, he was a saint. All you ever hear of him is his gentlemenly demenour and friendly presence. That doesnt mean he wasnt capable of mistakes, because he sure as hell was, and as you stated, he made a few. What it does mean is that the news of him fathering an illegitemate came as a little bit more than a shock. But, until today, I largley discarded it as someone trying to tarnish his rather clean rep and possibly make money of his name. And I still believe that, just not as strongly. If theres anyone that I could call my hero, it would be Buddy Holly, so I obviously want to defend him and search for possibilities in which could be called excuses I guess. I just plain dont want to believe it, and thats that. And until I have the chance to ask Buddy himself, Im not going to believe anything Bill Griggs or some fame-hungry woman says. Because honestly, noone one except Buddy truly knows.

Well, it's fairly well-known that Buddy packed heat (carried a gun) whenever he was on tour---Buddy often carried large amounts of cash, receipts from The Crickets gigs, and was always cautious of trouble on the road. He didn't make a big deal out of it, and probably only the Crickets knew he carried at the time.

The gun was described by Tommy Allsup as a "little .22" type handgun (I think it was a Ruger), which Buddy always kept stashed in his travel case or shaving kit. This was the gun found at the crash site, which his mother kept for many years before giving it to Maria Elena.

According to Jerry Allison, as seen in the DVD The Real Buddy Holly Story, one time The Crickets were lingering outside of a gig, and a group of bad-asses pulled up behind their car, blocking them in, no doubt looking to start trouble with these scrawny rock & rollers... Buddy drew his gun, pointed it right at the driver's face, and told him he had 5 seconds to move it---then he started counting. The bad-asses were gone by the count of 3.

I don't know about any of you out there---you may be too young to know---but it takes a lot of balls to stick a loaded gun in somebody's face and threaten to shoot. A lot of people get the shakes when it comes down to brandishing a firearm at the moment of truth---hunters call it buck fever, when the gun starts trembling uncontrollably the first time you try to kill a deer, for instance. But Jerry said Buddy pointed it right at a human being's face and apparently scared the hell out of the young bad-asses... This tells me something about Buddy Holly: That he was a lot tougher than he looked.

Please excuse my language but.....holy **** is about the only expression I can think of after reading that.Something in my sub-consience is telling me that this is a very wrong thing to say, but right on Buddy! I sure as hell wouldnt have the guts to point a loaded gun at anything, hell, I dont have the guts to point a cap gun at anything. Although, I dont think Buddy would have shot anyone, he probably knew that threatening to do so would be sufficent. Still though....wow. Yet another very shocking fact of the great Buddy Holly....he sure as hell wasnt a guy you'd wanna mess with. This almost makes me wonder just how Norman Petty got away with all the crap that he did, afterall, Buddy apears to have been a very strong-willed kid, and not one to lie down, even when someone threatened to over power him.Oh well, at least in the end he was free of Norm Petty, even if only for a brief amount of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Austin:
And there's at least one account of him pulling a gun on somebody (as J.I. relates on the Real Buddy Holly Story DVD).

Are you watching the same movie that I am? Where does J.I. say that? After reading your other post where you actually recount the story that J.I. tells, I still have no idea what you're talking about. Why is this on your DVD and not mine? Isn't the Real Buddy Holly Story 86 minutes? Cause mine is.
Okay, Buddy made mistakes. I'd really be worried about him if he didn't, I'd be tempted to call him a suck-up, a mommy's boy, and probably lose some of my respect for him in the process. But he made mistakes, owed up to them, life goes on.
About Buddy fathering an illegimate child, hate to point this out, because yes, I do find Buddy cute, but you know, he was a nerd. And had a bit of an inferioty complex during grade school, kept to himself and the kids he knew. So where does this fathering an illgemite child thing fit in, when you consider how shy he was, I'm pretty certain he would have been that way with the girls too.The temper in him throws things askew a bit, and I'm kinda bent 50/50 on this rumour. Because of the bravado that he showed, well, it could be possible. But the way he conducted himself, a gentleman, there's no way in hell it could be.
I wonder if the reason this topic is so hot is because in a little way, we, or some of us want a Buddy Jr. to be around, to promote his father's legend. Hate to break it to you people, but offspring aren't always kind to their parents legend. This late in the game, bringing an outsider, if you will, in, may throw things off, and not necessairly for the better.
I think Buddy's personality was like his music. Really unpredictable, and yet predictable in the same way. His music was predictable in that you knew he was going to have that chariteristic hiccup in the song, that his and J.I.'s riffs would fit solidly together, that it would seem like he knew exactly what he was singing about, well, I guess he actually did, he was writing the material. Everything else he did was unpredictable. Where was the guitar solo going to be this time? How was he going to do it? What tempo would he push the song too? etc.
The same can go for his personality, I guess. You know he wouldn't take any guff from Norm Petty, but when it came to his bandmates (to quote Sonny Curtis) "He loved us all and he treated us right." Those are some of the predictable things. The unpredictable are what we're talking about. Did he father an illegimate child. Did he point a gun at someone.
Truth be told, if he did point a gun at someone, I have a little respect for him. He probably saw himself as the trouble-makers saw him-a scrwany kid, and knew there was reason to defend himself. Not only that, it was his bandmates he was defending too, and he was the oldest, afterall. In the same sense, I can't stand kids who smoke, and drink because it's cool, they like to brag about how they came to school completely wasted. I have no doubt that Buddy never did that, and they probably didn't have the same awareness of smoking that they do now, so I guess him smoking sometimes isn't as bad as it could be. And the fathering the illegimate child, like I said, I'm split half and half. If he did, he made a mistake, and I'm certainly not proud of him making that mistake.
I was totally born in the wrong generation. I should have totally been born say about 1943, I would have been 2 when the world war ended and 16 when Buddy died, plenty old enough to remember him and bopping to his music. Better yet, instead of being born in Calgary, which he only visited once, be born in Texas. Because after all is said and done, I still think Buddy was a hell of a lot better than what was out there and what will ever be out there in the sense of music options.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: buddy_blue,

quote:

Originally posted by buddy_blue:
Are you watching the same movie that I am? Where does J.I. say that? After reading your other post where you actually recount the story that J.I. tells, I still have no idea what you're talking about. Why is this on your DVD and not mine? Isn't the Real Buddy Holly Story 86 minutes? Cause mine is.

Well, this is a profound mystery. After you challenged me on this, I watched the entire Real Buddy Holly Story DVD again and didn't see the sequence that I mentioned earlier. Which was dumbfounding, because I can clearly remember Jerry relating the incident and gesturing, pointing out the distance between Buddy and the other guy. And it's as clear in my mind as any other scene in the Real Buddy Holly Story---which must mean it's a scene from a video, or else I'm going completely nuts.

Double checking, I posted to Bill Griggs' message board and asked about this incident, and I got an immediate reply, citing another version of the same story. On Page 211 of Philip Norman's "Rave On" book, the story is told by Joe B. Mauldin:

"Carrying around such a large sum in cash held obvious risks, even in the law-abiding Midwest, and to a Texan raised as Buddy Holly had been, there was only one possible source of security. With the wad of large denomination bills in the Lincoln's glove compartment lay a German-made .22 caliber pistol he'd recently bought secondhand from Tommy Allsup. Buddy knew very well how to handle the .22 and, as Joe B. remembers, was not at all averse to demonstrating his quickness on the draw.

"'Right after we'd gotten paid one night, there was a problem in the parking lot. Some headlights came up behind us real close and wouldn't let us back out of our space. Buddy reached into the glove compartment, buzzed down the Lincoln's automatic rear window, turned around, and pointed his gun through it. Those headlights just disappeared!'"

Now, see, that's the same story. However, when I heard/saw J.I. tell it, he indicated that Buddy drew down on the driver of the other car (about 15 feet away), pointing right at the guy's face---whereupon he told the driver he had 5 seconds to skedaddle. And the other car was gone by the time Buddy counted to 3.

The weird part of this is that I have a very clear picture in my mind of Jerry telling this story, so it must be from another video. But which one?

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Austin:
The weird part of this is that I have a very clear picture in my mind of Jerry telling this story, so it must be from another video. But which one?

I'm kinda glad that it isn't on the Real Buddy Holly Story, because had there been like an edited version or what have you like there is with the Buddy Holly Story, well, this would not be one happy girl.
Isn't there another made for TV movie about Buddy Holly? I seem to remember someone talking about it on the link that you posted earlier to a message board.