Howdy all you Buddy fans,

Although I have seen some of the less than flattering things said about the Bopper in this discussion board, I still believe a lack of framiliarity with the Big Boppers music and life are the reasons some of you might feel like launching insults about a guy you would have to be an asshole not to like and who has done more than you might have guessed for rock music during its fragile infancy.

Everybody knows "chantilly lace" and you probably like it, but besides that top ten smash the Big Bopper had 3 top 100 hits in less than 6 months with "Big Boppers wedding" and "little red riding hood" also he wrote the #1 hit "white lightnin'" for music legend George Jones and another #1 hit "running bear" for Johnny Preston. This is all within a 6 month performance career!
Also the Big Bopper was as a dj who helped popularise rock n roll music in eastern texas at a time when black music was not accepted there he came up with the idea for "short films" to accompany songs and gave us the term
"music video" and was the first to make one!
Also at the time of his death the bopper held the record for longest continuing broadcasting going six days without sleep and spinning nearly 2000 records .


P.S. lets not forget that day the music died incident stole a husband from a woman a father from a son and a generation of big bopper fans were cheated out of even knowing his music.

I you have any love for rock and roll music or any thing resembling a heart please go to www.officialbigbopper.com and sign the petition to get him in . Every signature helps get him closer.

WHY NOT ? THANKS YALL AND KEEP ON RAVIN' ON.

Why not? Because Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens deserve to be in that hall of fame, they were both accomplished musicans.Granted, the Bopper was a good songwritter and came up with the whole music video thing, and if there was a DJ hall of fame or a songwritters hall of fame, you bet your ass I would vote for him, but I dont think he was quiet there when it came to fitting the bill of musician.And I'll admit it, I do like "Chantilly Lace", but when compared to anything by Buddy or Ritchie, it doest really measure up.And when you say the day the music died to a husband from a woman ect... well that was kind of the case with all the performers we lost that night. Buddy was married, and had a baby on the way, Ritchie was on the verge of getting engaged, and was all his mother had, and we were cheated from all of their music, especially when you think of what Buddy had in the works.Sure the Big Bopper was making great strides toward being in that hall of fame, and I think should he have lived longer he would have got there, but from where he stood at the end of his career....well you'll have to forgive us if were a bit skepical.Im sorry if your a Bopper,fan but you have to face the truth....Chantilly Lace was a great song that was obviously enough to get the Bopper into a headlining spot on the Winter Dance Party, but it isnt really enough to get him into a hall with musicans that accomplished twice as much as him, and in some cases, not over a very long period of time.And I dont think DJing skills count when there deciding whos gettin in.........So, again, Im sorry if I've insulted you or anything, but in my opinion, the Bopper wasnt quiet there.......

There's one thing that we do have to thank the Bopper for, and that was music videos.
The Bopper was on the tour because of Chantilly Lace, yet Ritchie and Buddy were on the tour because of a whole slew of hits that they had sent into the top ten because of their talent. The Bopper was a disc-jockey, and I think would have done quite well in the producing aspect, maybe, because of his DJ experience, etc.
Ought of curiosity, I went to the above website, though not to sign the petition, don't worry, just to look at the site. I clicked a on video clip of Winter Dance Party 1959, and it turned out to be a clip of the John Mueller performance of "Buddy". If there is any reason to go to that site, this is it. There's clips of all the performers doing some songs, amd there's a lot of Buddy. Though there's one part where John Mueller (Buddy) is on his back, playing the guitar, and it looks, well, odd. I would love to see that performance.
J.P. Richardson has made rock and roll history because of his untimely death, and of whom with his death coincides, and how it occured. But, as crazy_for_buddy said, just as DJing skills don't get you into the hall of fame, it's not how you died that gets you into the hall of fame either. Sorry to be so cynical (I think that's the word) but though the Bopper was a good man, probably had a good sense of humour, sure, he was at the same status as Buddy and Ritchie, but he was captapulted to that status by one song, and had not worked his way there like Buddy and Ritchie had.
Everyone lost something that night, and none of it for the better.

The Bopper was on the tour in support of "Big Boppers wedding" not chantilly lace and ritchie is far less qualified than him as far as charting songs, popularity at the time and a whole host of other reasons namely his 2 #1 hits he wrote, his early promotion of rock music and incredible live shows and while i am a huge Ritchie valens fan he is not as important in the evolution of rock as the Big Bopper . check the news paper headlines he was huge at the time. if Ritchie is inducted(2001) than its only right to induct J.P. Richardson facts speak for themselves its just too bad the bopper didnt have Lou Diamond Phillips playing him in a cheesy made up hollywood movie.

P.S. the hall does have a non performer category and have you ever listened to the Boppers music? and if so how could you not love it? he freakin rocks!

though he is no Buddy Holly he will be inducted with or without your help I just wish it was with but ....

Ok, theres a couple things you need to get staight before you go on insulting one of the best musicans of all time.Ritchie Valens was in the music industy for 9 months, and in the 9 months had 3 records hit the charts. Come On Lets Go reached number 42, La Bamba, which was barley realesed before his death, reached 26, and Donna, which reached number 2. The man was the first Latino ever in the music industry, which is why his last name had to be changed from Valenzuela to Valens, in case of backlash.He took a Mexican folk song, a language that he couldnt even speak, and arranged it into one of the most popular songs ever to be covered. He came from extreame poverty ans had to make his first guitar by hand. By the time he was 14, he was already known as the Little Richard Of San Fernando. How can you say Ritchie was not as important to the evolution of rock as the Bopper was? He created an entire new form of rock n roll with just one song!! Why isnt the Bopper inducted? Because he was a damn disc jockey, that why. I have a best of Ritchie Valens cd, and it as 20 songs on it, all of which kick the ass of anything the Bopper did. And for your information, La Bamba happens to be my favourite movie of all time, I know the words to it for God sakes, and I know that very little of it is fiction. I know everything there is to know about Ritchie Valens, and that movie is about as close to his actual life as a movie could be. I own tons of best of the 50s cds, and Ritchies on every one of them, and the Bopper isnt on any. But ya, I have heard his music, and its so incomparable to anything Ritchie did that its no wonder he got inducted and the Bopper didnt. Have you ever heard of anything by Ritchie besides Donna or La Bamba? The guy was almost as ahead of the times as Buddy....whearas the Big Bopper sounds directly out of the 50s..There are so many things we have to thank Ritchie Valens for, as without him rock would be almost as bad as it would be if we had no Buddy.Give the Big Bopper a guitar and mabey then I would vote for him, but Ritchie could play circles around almost anybody. I dont think the Bopper shouldnt be in the hall of fame, I just feel that Ritchie has more right there. He was a genius, and was still a teenager.Im sorry, but I cant stand it when people bash one of the most important pioneers of rock n roll.

Your right, Ritchie was no Buddy Holly, but he was the closest thing to it, and still is.

Dude I´hate to burst your bubble but La Bamba is complete fiction ask any one who knows and while a badass movie it was even less accurate than the buddy holly story and the Bopper had just as many hits as Ritchie plus his other innovations, please dont get me wrong because I love ritchie valens with all my heart and hate to even compare the two but Ritchie and the Big Bopper were damn near equals when it came to accoomplishments and while Ritchie was a greater guitar player than the Bopper but Bopper none the less played guitar on every song he recorded and his music is just as good .
In fact more people that I know grow to love the Bopper more than Valens who the world knows through the fake movie , do your home work on these guys man! Ritchie wasant even credited on the soundtrack at all and none of his life is accurately portrayed .
Donna and him were not even together when the accident happened and yes Ritchie did speak spanish very well and spoke it to his mother and maria elena Holly you would do better to research this stuff before you start preaching
plus you would gain an even greater respect for Ritchie try more research because someone as passionate as you with the real facts in there hands is going to help keep Ritchies memory alive ask Bill Griggs both the Buddy holly story and La Bamba are as bogus as your assessment of the Big Bopper .

P.S. Valens does sound better than Valensuela anyway i mean what a cool name Ritchie Valens
and saying the Big Bopper was just a dj is like saying that buddy was just a tile setter or that ritchie was just a teenager!

Do my homework? How many Ritchie Valens websites have you been on? I have been on every one in exsistence, Im a member of every fan club there is, I've been obsessed with the guy since I was three!! Please dont argue with me over this, because I do know all there is to about Ritchie Valens, I've spent weeks "doing my homework". The guy didnt speak fluent Spanish, he picked up some words here and there from his family.La Bamba was fairly close, although I realize that a lot of theatrical liscence was taken, and lots stuff was made up, but it was way closer than the Buddy Holly Story. Granted, I dont know much about the Bopper, and I'm not pretending I do, but I do know everything there is about Ritchie, so I think your the one who better do your homework. And I have the soundtrack to La Bamba, the original record, and while Los Lobos perform all the songs, the writting is credited to Ritchie Valens. I'm not sayin the Bopper doesnt deserve to be in the hall, I'm just sayin my preference is Ritchie, and I believe he deserves to be there. Plus, I dont think either of them would apprieciate us arguing over whos better......I like some of the Boppers stuff, you like some of Ritchies....enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by nikliss:
anyway i mean what a cool name Ritchie Valens
and saying the Big Bopper was just a dj is like saying that buddy was just a tile setter or that ritchie was just a teenager!

The Big Bopper was a DJ because that's what he was first known as. He was a DJ that sang rock and roll music. Buddy and Ritchie, on the other hand, well. Buddy was a rock and roller who did come from humble backgrounds, and he was a rock and roller that happened to be a carpenter apprentice in his early days. Ritchie Valens just happened to be a teenager when he made it big.
I do admit that my knowledge of Ritchie Valens is very limited, most of what I know of him I have picked up on this board, or picked up because of various bits and pieces of info disclosed in articles on the crash. But I have no doubt that he was bigger than the Bopper, sorry. Really, the Bopper needed more time on this earth to make it big, because he was going on a one hit. Did he have anything in the studio that he was going to jump on when he got back? Ritchie sure had plans for the future, what he was going to record and such, and Buddy, well. The guy had recorded a slew of things in his apartment, never mind waiting to get back into the studio for pity's sake!
This is the thing about the crash: they were all equal in the end. Nobody got spared because of his Djing skills, because of his guitar skills, because of his age, because of the famiily that was waiting to see him back home. The crash made them all equals, and in the end, they all lay in the same spot. No one was a better rock and roller than the other, and that's that. Look at what the hall of fame (and numerous awards) have gotten Buddy. Bootleg box sets, a very fictional and almost throwing-things-at-the-TV-set inducing movie, and a name that is nowhere near as recognized as Elvis. Hall of fame isn't everything.

Well now,thats a damn good point...and a very true one too.The whole thing was a huge tragidy, and arguing over who was better in life is just depreciating all three. It shouldnt matter which is in the hall of fame and which isnt, what matters is that they're music is still enjoyed by scores of people who keep their memory alive. And as you say, the hall of fame sure as hell hasnt done anything but harm for Buddy and Ritchie, so mabey its a good thing the Big Bopper hasnt been inducted yet....

I want to apologize for the misconception that I was trying to compare the musicians as far as the raw talent in each of them goes I never would in a million years suggest that ritchie wasant amazing in every sence of the word, because he was. I have every known Valens recording and they are incredible and he is even better live as the live at pacoima j.r. high album shows so please dont think that I have anything against Ritchie because he is on my mind daily.
but he was not the first latino in the music industry there were others a la Rickey Ricardo
with popular hits but rather the first latino
rocker to hit the big time and yes ive spent my life as a Valens fanatic and have done some serious and exausting research on him for years
and the movie la bamba is a total farce with but a few historcal nuggets thrown in because they were too important to ignore and that my friend is 100% fact and though I have not a copy of the movie soundtrack on 33rpm
I do have a c.d. and cassette of it and neither
list valens on any part there are no writing credits listed even for other artists not performing Valens songs. Also according to his mother connie,bob keane,waylon jennings,tommy allsup,carl bunch,dion,and carlo and freddie of the bellmonts as well as maria elena holly have all testafied to his speaking spanish the movie was trying to give the impression that he didnt fit in with either culture causing him to feel alienated and that is the myth before ritchie even signed with del-fi or recorded come on lets go he was a favorate of latinos all over the valley a favorate that spoke perfect spanish that is.(he is mexican and surrounded by mexicans his entire life do you think they spoke english at home?) Also the buddy holly story was released nearly a decade before the hall of fame existed.
but to make a long story short an argument was noy my intention when I posted the request for signatures for the big bopper, my intention was to inform people who love rock and roll that they could help one of its pioneers get inducted into the hall and at the same time mabie turn a few people onto his music,music that he died bringing to his fans.
and while the Big Bopper might not have a hollywood movie made about him he still deserves the credit and respect due to him
I figured that this site would be a good place to find friends of the Big Bopper people who care but mabie that was my mistake and I apologise for trying to do so I thought there would be exietment at the prospect of being able to push a few buttons and help a man get his dues all ive gotten mostly is dont get me wrongs and insults from people who should care .
Regardless though the Bopper wants in the hall and cleaveland wont let him down so if you want to help the website is www.officialbigbopper.com
though the site is under construction the petition is waiting for your signature and some day just mabie the Big Bopper will thank you himself in the next world.

I knew there were some staunch Big Bopper fans lurking out there, with the same old arguments---that the Big Bopper wrote this and that, oh, and everything he wrote was a hit, and he was changing the face of Rock & Roll, oh, and he invented music videos, and... Sheesh.

First, saying that J.P. Richardson invented music videos is like saying that Al Gore invented the Internet. LOL... The practice of filming musical shorts dates back to the earliest days of "talkie" films, in the 1920s. These evolved into the feature-length musicals of the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. Throughout the 50s---well, when television really took off---there were a number of televised variety shows that featured musical guests, with their performances captured on film and video for posterity (including Elvis and Buddy Holly), which are still shown today on some music video channels... In the 60s, groups such as The Beatles, The Beachboys and others went back to filming musical shorts, similar in many ways to the very first "music videos" of the 1920s.

So, how in the hell did J.P. Richardson invent something that already existed before he was even born? Answer: He didn't.

As for his songwriting abilities, I've said it before and I'll say it again---J.P. wrote childish novelty songs. Sort of in the style of Weird Al Yankovich, with absolutely no musical originality, and always with some sort of campy premise. "Running Bear" was a hokey tale of star-crossed Indian lovers. "White Lightnin'" was a goofy song about hillbillies making moonshine. And who can forget "The Purple People Eater Meets The Witch Doctor"? Fortunately, most people forgot it, even though it was the A-side of "Chantilly Lace"... And J.P. pretty much consistently misjudged which songs were "hot"---the guy had terrible taste in music.

Was he a musician? According to his mother, he plinked around on his acoustic sometimes, strumming some basic chords. And, because he ad-libbed many of his lyrics, he couldn't even lip-sync his own songs. Does this qualify as a musical innovator?

More importantly, we might ask did the Big Bopper have staying power? Would he have lasted another year in the music business? Two years? I think two years is really pushing it---I mean, on his last tour the guy was pushing "The Big Bopper's Wedding," which was a perfect example of what a poor songwriter he was. It was right on par with "The Purple People Eater Meets the Witch Doctor" for musical value.

So, no, I don't believe the Big Bopper was headed for super-stardom, nor even a position of influence in the music industry---unless he was just going to write childish novelty songs for the rest of his career, which would get him plenty of airplay on Dr. Demento.

And, no, Ritchie Valens didn't speak Spanish. His aunt had to coach him on the lyrics to LaBamba.

THANK YOU!!! For the love of God its nice to get some hard hitting support around here from people who actually know what there talking about. Hell man, I didnt try to insult anyone, but saying that the Bopper and Ritchie Valens were equals is pretty much the same thing as comparing Elvis to Buddy, and we all know how that turned out. And no, nikliss, Ritchie DIDNT speak Spanish, as we all have told you countless times. He admits to it in an interview I have seen, and every known Ritchie site out there states that he did indeed need his aunts coaching in the pronuciation of La Bamba. And as for living in a house full of Mexicans, well he was kind of bounced around between family members when he was a child before finally settling with his mother. Why would they teach him Spanish? He was growing up in America, with predomiently white kids(although Im aware that his neighborhood was largely Hispanic) and would really have no use for the language, most of his close relatives spoke English. And I have said before that I have always refrained from harsh judgement for the Big Bopper because I do know so little of him, but from what I've picked up here, its not sounding like he made too much of an impact on the face of rockn roll, and certainly not as much as Ritchie. Listen, I respect your love for the Bopper,and I dont mean to insult you, but you just cant compare the two. And it was obvious how the majority of this board felt about the Bopper from other forums, so to come round and say that he is more deserving of the hall of fame than Ritchie is kinda stupid dont ya think? Especially after I stated that Ritchie makes a close second only to Buddy...But as buddy_blue said, in the end, does it really matter? There all gone, but their music is still around...as I've said, this argument is just depreciating all three...

Okay, maybe "music videos" were around before the Bopper was born, but it seems that he at least coined the phrase music video. This is an interesting question: did the Bopper actually do any music videos himself? The only reason I knew he coined the term, if you will, is listening to some other person do an english project on the Bopper, like I said, my knowledge of the Bopper extends not much past the plane crash, and while my knowledge of Ritchie Valens extends a little bit further, not that much further.
So why then does the Bopper get credit for the music videos, then, if Charles Austin claims that no, he didn't actually "invent" something that was around before his time? And are there videos of the Bopper?

[posting removed -- personal attacks]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jim,

BOOB!

Nikliss, you spout off a lot of immature, uninformed gibberish, only exacerbated by the fact that you can barely spell and you have no control of your emotions. Virtually everything you think you know seems to be based on myth and legend, with very little in the way fact. I've been a fan of Rock & Roll since before the Internet was invented, and probably before your parents were born---and I was already arguing the facts on Buddy Holly's life and times when you were waiting for somebody to change your diaper...which probably wasn't very long ago.

So, take your little temper tantrums somewhere else, Nikliss.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charles Austin,

Sorry I was not all together sober when I layed down all that crap, didnt think ahead, sorry Charles Austin.