I felt guilty for jumping around so much on the other topic titled Jerry Allison, so this is for everything else about his bandmates, unless someone sees fit to create another topic thread to discuss something more particular pertaining to Buddy's bandmates. Anyways, here's the answer to my previous question, what years were J.I. and Joe B. born, but if anyone wants to say something different, please do, because these dates still differ a little in saying that Joe B. was only 3 years younger, not 4, and Jerry only 2 years younger, not three.
http://members.aol.com/nanopookie/people.html

Gotta love surfing the web for Buddy Holly stuff, you never know what you're going to find. Check this article out, some of the quotes are funny/interesting.
http://patdinizio.com/sBox1D.asp?box1ID=829

This message has been edited. Last edited by: buddy_blue,

http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/music/tour/hollywof.htm
Why were the Crickets inducted so much later than Buddy? Mind you, I guess it must be the same reason that why was Buddy inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when the Crickets weren't inducted, nor even invited to the ceremony (see above website for a couple more details)! Altyhough I have much respect for Waylon Jennings from what I've read about him and hearing what Buddy produced for him, it's surprising that he should get into Lubbock's Walk Of Fame before the Crickets!
But the Fireballs? Didn't all they do was overdub Buddy's songs, both before and after his death? (don't get me started on the overdubbing after his death. The background vocals during his lifetime some of them I can barely deal with, never mind after his death.) At least the Picks aren't on this list. Truthfully, and without a hint of sarcasm (I mean it) their best song they ever did was Forever 22. A close second might be Gone. That's about the only song that sounds good with background vocals, because it's like they're re-affirming what the singer knows, but doesn't want to be true. Anyways.........

I completly agree you about with the Picks singing background. Its not that there bad singers, its just that they kinda take away from the energy and charisma that Buddy brought to the song. Plus the sound kind of hillbillyish. Is it true that the Crickets, Buddys bandmates and closest friends, weren't invited to the induction ceromony? Who the hell made up the guest list? Although Iv'e never heard any of the music that the Crickets did after Buddys death, I still have great respect for them for what they brought to Buddys music, and for having the courage to go on and to continue to make music in the name of his memory.

According to the second website I posted in this topic, the Crickets (the original ones, just Joe B. and J.I.) were not even invited to the ceremony of induction, and later they were told they could have bought tickets if they wanted to come. Yes, who the hell did make up the guest list, because whoever did obviously skipped a lot of classes of rock and roll history to make that kind of mistake.
The Crickets saw many members after Buddy's death, Sonny Curtis, Glen Hardin, Earl Sinks, and Joe B. and J.I. were always fundamental parts of the Crickets. I have heard some of their music, and although it is good, to quote Waylon Jennings, "but there's always something missin'/it'll never be the same."

Your damn right it'll never be the same.Iv'e read that Niki Sullivan, one of the other guitarist for the Crickets, has died as well....if this is the case then Im sure Buddy must be very happy right now,as hes slowly getting his band pieced back together and soon the'll be able to rock out like they used too-despite the slightly different audience.

Well, all the kids that were around during his time must be slowly dying off, so not that much of a different audience.
I'd like to point out a fact I find very interesting-Buddy went through at least three rhythm guitarists (Bob Montgomery-actually I think that was more of a paternership than a rhythm gutair/lead guitar relantionship-, Niki Sullivan and Tommy Allsup), he went through, again, at least three bass players (Don Guess, Larry Welborn, Waylon Jennings and Joe.B. Maudlin, though Maudlin, I see him as the true Cricket and I don't think he would have ever left Buddy and opened up a space for Waylon had the band not gotten into an arguement) but yet only two drummers, Jerry Allison, and Carl Bunch, yet the same thing for J.I. There would have never been an opportunity for Carl had not the band been in a fight. So after all this is said and done, Buddy really went through basically his whole career, and even before his career, with one drummer.
I believe that all the musicians that Buddy ever played with have the right to call themselves Crickets, because while the Apartement Tapes are impressive with nothing but Buddy's voice and guitar, he couldn't have done all of it without the Crickets. Though, when it comes down to the wire, and which Crickets should have been invited to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony, well, hands down, it should have been Jerry and Joe B. The one quote that comes to mind is actually from Busey in the Buddy Holly Story, when he's in the apartement talking to Maria Elena, saying, "I don't mind bombing with them but I can't stand the thought of falling on my face without them."
I would love to have the chance to speak to Jerry or Joe B., sadly it's no longer possible to speak to Niki or Waylon, though I believe it certainly would have been interesting to speak to Waylon Jennings, just because of the whole outlaw attitude that he saw in Buddy and took it one step further, still a gentle man, but damn serious about what would happen to his music.

I agree that the relationship between Buddy and Bob Motgomery was more of a partnership. Actually come to think of it wasnt Bob the lead singer and Buddy the lead guitarist and harmonizer? I too agree that, although the Crickets have has a landslide of members, in my mind, it is still just Buddy,Joe B., and Jerry. And I think that quote is very fitting when one thinks about Buddy relationship with the Crickets, however I belive it was fallin on my ass not my face....lol.Iv'e seen that movie too much.One thing that I found shocking about the film was that Buddy stood up for himself, and I guess we have Jennings verification that he actually did that.However Mr. Jennings has also stated that Buddy had a terrible temper,and its that one that I find a little hard to swallow.

I think that it was Bob actually who played the guitar all the time, and Buddy flipped between a four string banjo, a mandolin, and a guitar, and yes, the two did share the vocals.
Well, obviously Buddy couldn't be a pushover if he was going to stand up for his music and what he wanted to do in the studio. I have heard that yes, he had a temper, but I doubt that it was ever directed towards Jerry or Joe B. as depicted in the movie. Even the recount of the fight where Buddy was trying to get the cigar away from Joe B. was probably more like a friendly tussle, though Buddy was determined to get his way, than it was an actual fight, just because they were friends and wouldn't hurt each other that badly, verbally or physically, no matter what people say about his temper. I do believe that Buddy had a temper, but when I think about all the people I have heard say or all the artciles I have read that say that Buddy was a gentleman, in his business dealings and his personal life, well, it puts everything into perspective and makes Buddy seem like all the rest of us-someone who lost his temper when it came to something he cared for passionately, because I doubt he let the seperation from his bandmates go easily without Norm Petty getting an earful.
"What I mainly learned from Buddy was attitude. He loved music and taught me that there shouldn't be any barriers to it." Waylon Jennings

If you were to see a picture of Buddy Holly, without knowing a single thing about him, what would you assume? In many ways, his apperance did comply with his personality, in the fact that he was apperenlty withdrawn as a child and didnt really have that many friends, and in the fact that one can assume that he was a complete gentleman, which he was.However, would you ever assume that such a genlte looking man could ever not be a complete pushover? But that he did, in fact, defend himself and his music with vigor and, well temper? When I said the film shocked me in that way, thats because it did. I may have been a "well educated" Buddy Holly fan, but I never would have imagined that Buddy ever would have defended himself, or that he would have had any trace of a temper.However, I agree with you that seeing that side of him does, very much so,make him seem more real,I guess you would say. I really respect him for standing up for his beliefs and his music, and I, as Im sure everyone else, am very greatful that Buddy did so, as Im sure his music wouldnt have kicked near as much ass if it was Norman Pettys vision we were expirencing instead of Buddys.

If I saw a picture of Buddy without knowing anything about him, I doubt that I would even take a second glimspe. But from the first glimspe, I guess I would think that he was a gentle man, with a wicked sense of humour. I think mostly of the professional picture of Buddy, taken when he was in New York that is currently on my bedroom wall. He has a smile, it seems like he's in on this private joke that he's not ready to share with the world yet. I look at Elvis (sorry to bring him into this, but) and I see someone who was very concerned about how he looked every second of the day, someone who was used to attention when he wanted it, no sooner, no later. I look at the Everly Brothers, and I see two guys who are a bit unsure of this record business, but are working it anyways and working it good. I can't think at the moment of someone I look at and immediately think that they have a temper, but it's not Buddy.
I don't think that he ever realized the power of his temper, I think that he knew that if he was fierce about something, he could usually get his way, or at least make the person see his point a little bit better. But, no matter his temper, I don't hold it against him.
But you know celebrities, especially today. If there's even the slightest mean rumour going around about them, you hear about it. So you'd think you'd hear rumours about Buddy, and yeah, you hear the odd one, especially because he left this life too soon. Runours like he fathered an illegimate child before he met Maria Elena (Bill Griggs has answered this question but I can only find the question and the beginning sentance of the answer!) that he fired a gun in the cockpit, that he had a temper. And maybe you'd believe them if you heard them more than once in a blue moon. What I hear more of is that Buddy was a gentleman. Was he so well liked that he defies all laws of celebrity and that people think too highly of him to even bother to mention a tiny flaw like his temper? I don't doubt it, if his temper was that big of a deal.

Good call on the sense of humour thing, I can see that too. Actually I think its more his smile. Its kind of michevious, you know, like he pulled this hiarious practical joke and cant help but to laugh at himself about it.Buddy seemed like the kind of guy that would have been smiling all the time,I mean have you ever seen a picture of the guy with a straight face? Ok, so there are a couple, but you can tell hes fighting it, that he almost didnt like to be serious.The first thing that comes to my mind when I see a picture is that Buddy was a happy-go-lucky kinda guy, and was very approachable.Whereas one might be intimidated to go up to certain celbrities,(Elvis is a good example), Buddy seemed like he would have embraced his fans, and would have really appreiciated the fact that they bothered to come up to him at all.
As far as his temper goes, I for one am very glad he had it to use a "secret weapon". One of the many things that make me such a huge Buddy Holly fan is the fact that he was such a loveable and gentle guy, and I dont think he would have been that way if he didnt have the musical freedom that he eventually enjoyed. He geniuenly loved music, and I think he would have been genuienly pissed off if he had to answer to some big shot producer who was calling all the shots, and that would have transfered onto his music and personality.Anyways, its not like he ever displayed his temper in public. He kept it for his bussiness dealings,where he needed it.So, yes, naturally all you ever hear about Buddy is that he was such a gentleman,but hes obviously not the guy you'd ever want to pick an argument with.As far as him fathering an illegitimate child, well thats one hell of a laugh isnt it? Buddy didnt have the player rock star slammin the groupies in the tour bus kind of personality.It just wasnt who he was. And even if one offered, which Im sure many did, he probably would have politely declined, and hurried away awkwardly.He seemed like the sort of guy that would ask his date before he so much as touched her, never mind doing well....that.Not to mention I doubt he would do anything that serious with anybody without caring very deeply for them, or at least knowing them for a lenghth of time.All of this just seems to cement Buddy further into musical imortality and further into our hearts. I dont think Id believe any rumor of any sort about him, because he was so well liked and highly thought of.And as for that temper, while he is the last person you'd suspect of it, hes the first person you'd forgive for it.Someone needed to put Norman Petty in is place, and all the more power to Buddy for being the one who did it.

Very good call on the rumours and his temper, that it was a hidden secret weapon. And if someone had a problem with his temper, there were twenty other people right there willing to overlook that, because they liked him too much.
As for the pictures, the man could not keep a straight face, seems as though even if his life depended on it. From what I've read about Niki Sullivan's split from the group, part of it was because the boys loved to play practical jokes on each other, and maybe Niki was a victim of one too many, though the boys were likely all victims at one time or another. As you say, if he was offered a chance as a couple of girls may have offered him, the thought of him hurrying akwardly fits very well. Sure, him and Jerry and Joe B. probably would have laughed about it later on the bus or in the hotel room, but he was a gentleman, in all aspects of his life, save for the business dealings, as has already been discussed. And thank god for that, because Norm Petty sure couldn't see the light of day from where his head was.
Look at the pictures of Buddy on the Winter Dance Party. For lack of better word, the guy looks geuinely pissed off. Most of the pictures that I speak of in this case are ones where he's caught unawares and in some cases is not even looking at the camera, such as when he's getting off the bus. In these pcitures, he's looking down at the steps as he descends the bus, not looking back at some other performer on the bus as they engage in conversation, not looking at anyone. Even when he looks into the camera it looks like he's saying, get me the hell out of this picture and back to Texas, back to New York. There are some pictures with fans, and true to himself, Buddy makes an effort to smile, but the truth is in his eyes.....he is not enjoying himself. I find that even the professional pictures in New York don't quite capture him, it looks like he'd rather be frowning over some document or his Strat, working something out, though I doubt he could actually force his lips into a frown.
Not only is his smile and sense of humour evident in his pictures, but also in his music, and I use Everyday as a wonderful example. He's got to be laughing at something, I also love the line in "You've Got Love", when he sings "I like this spin I'm in", it sounds, well, it's hard to describe. It's like he's not supposed to be admitting it, but he can't help it, he has to say it, but it still comes out like a shy secret. His emotions were real. That's why we can relate so easily. The sterotype is that guys aren't supposed to cry? Buddy cries in his songs, the person in his songs are crying. He knew emotions, and he knew how to work our emotions. He was THE MAN.

I completly agree that the Winter Dance Party photos are evidence of just how pissed Buddy was with his entire situation. I dont think I've seen one onstage photo where he smiling, or appears to be having any fun. It looks like he was there because he had to be, not because he wanted to be.And even in the photos with the fans, as you have said, he makes a valiant effort to uphold his reputation and provide his fans with the Buddy they see in all of his professional photos, but he just cant. Its almost like he had no more to give. I mean afterall,look at what the guy had gone through within the past few months. He had broken up with his best friends, had a lengthy legal battle with Norman Petty, and was flat broke. Not to mention how horrible the tour was going. He was cold, wearing the same shirt every damn day, and was still expected to get out there and give his fans something to remember. Its really too bad that, if God had to take him, it couldnt have been under happier, more enjoyable cicumstances. But then you listen to a track like "It Doesnt Matter Anymore", which if Im not mistaken was his last recorded,and the magics still there, the enthusiasm, the thrill.Its almost like he was still laughing to himself, thinking of the good times instead of dwelling on the bad, remebering all the plans he had for the future and how great things were going to be.

He actually literally was wearing the same shirt, or at least the same stage clothes day after day, because Carl Bunch had forgotten a set of clothes in one of the dressing rooms at a venus, leaving the Crickets with only one pair of matching stage clothes.
Technically, yes, It Doesn't Matter Anymore, Raining in my Heart, Moondreams and True Love Ways were the last songs he recorded in an actual studio, but as to what his last song was that he ever recorded, that honour goes to Leave My Woamn Alone, a very good instrumental piece. The last Buddy Holly recordings are actually the Apartment Tapes, because those, without Norm Petty touching them, were as good as anything else Buddy had ever recorded in a studio.
Man, I wonder how many hours a day Buddy spent on the tour dwelling about his best friends. The main reasons I see him to be pissed off in the pictures was because he was cold and didn't want to be on the tour. But not wanting to be on the tour can be expanded to not wanting to be on the tour without his best friends, if he has to be on the tour at all.

Just thinking about something.....Joe B. Maudlin is known as Joe B., I've seen one website where an old school friend/fellow performer calls him Joey.....but for the most part, it was Joe B. What did the B stand for?!?

J.I. and Buddy must have been great best friends, because don't you think it would have been a little bit weird for J.I. to have his best friend sing about his girlfriend?

Lol! ya know doubt. But when you think about, J.I asked Buddy to change the song name so he could impress Peggy Sue, because apparently they had had an argument just before the song was cut. I dont think J.I suspected Buddy of anything, afterall he made him fight to get the name changed......its still a funny thought though...

I know it was J.I. who suggested the name change cause he wanted some brownie points so he could make up with Peggy Sue, and none of the boys thought that the song would make it out of Texas, so they did it. Also, Buddy challenged J.I. to play paradiddles through the song without stopping, and I hardly doubt J.I. could turn done a challenge from his best mate, no matter the circumstances. Still, even though it was J.I. who suggested it, I wouldn't be surprised to learn he did feel a little funny about it, or even Peggy Sue feeling funny about it.

I find it interesting that while the Crickets didn't sing themselves as background vocals on Buddy's records, it's obvious that they could carry a tune in a bucket. This evidence is seen in that J.I. recorded a couple of songs, although they were just for fun and the boys were just fooling, J.I. does sound a little bit like Buddy, for the longest time I thought Real Wild Child was a Buddy song. It's actually a J.I. song. Them sounding alike I blame on the Texas accent, though listening to the two talk in interviews they sound a lot different. J.I. seems to have a higher pitched voice almost, and his accent is thicker. Buddy almost rolls his words more. Anyways, if you also look at the footage from the Ed Sullivan show, J.I. and Niki Sullivan are seen mouthing, if not singing along with Buddy. I find that interesting, did the boys not feel comfortable enough with their singing to back Buddy professionally in the studio, or, more likely, was it a Norm Pett override descion where there would be another group as Buddy's back-up, no ifs ands or buts about it?

Didnt Niki Sullivan provide background vocal while he was in the Crickets? I have some footage of the boys performing That'll Be The Day, and you can clearly see Niki singing...and I dont believe that was the Ed Sullivan show either...Plus, nearly any intumentation I've read of the Crickets says Niki gave his voice similar to what "Ray Bob" in The Buddy Holly Story did. As for Joe B. and J.I singing background, well I think that was definatly a Norman Petty decison, but I think it would have been one that Buddy agreed with aswell. He rarley used background singers as it was, and all of them probably would have prefered to have professional singers on the record instead of amatures who could carry a tune. Not to insult there singing talent,but Im sure they all slept better at night because if it sounded bad, it wasnt their fault.But of course, it never sounded bad......

I know that the first version of Maybe Baby has Niki Sullivan singing background, and his voice is surprisingly low, especially cause I think he was a year younger than Buddy. Anyways, if you watch the tape of That'll Be the Day closely, J.I. can also be seen mouthing a couple of words, maybe Joe B. too.
Buddy sound bad? That guy couldn't sound bad if he tried. Listen to Ain't Got No Home.
I rest my case.

Ya, I saw Joe B. and J.I mouthing the words aswell....But I still say they were singing...You can barley hear the background vocals on the record, never mind hear them on that crappy old tape. A good example of this is when Buddy is playing Oh Boy...the sound of the guitar is almost non-exsistent alot of the time...Anyways, if they were just mouthing it, they look pretty damn stupid. I mean whats the point? You can keep time with the music just as good by following along in your head. And I dont mean that Buddy ever sounded bad, I ment that should the background vocals sound bad noone one would have to feel guilty. Most unfortunatly, I dont own Aint Got Home, although I have heard it, because my parents think 14 Buddy Holly CDs is enough....actually the only reason Im getting a job is to support my Buddy Holly obsession lol. But your right, the man couldnt sound bad if he was babbling on in his sleep...I wish there was a recording of that out somewhere, Id be curious as to what he'd say!

When I said mouthing the words, I meant singing along, but that's what it looks like right, cause I mean the tape doesn't pick up their voices. Yeah, it would be kinda stupid for them just to be mouthing along, wouldn't it? lol How did Buddy get miked on the Ed Sullivan show, because I don't remember seeing a mic in front of him, though he has something funky hanging around his neck, it looks kinda like a toggle that you would see on the end of the strings on a cowboy hat, but he's not wearing a cowboy hat.....
Have you ever seen the speaker systems that they used in the 50's? Now that is a laugh. The mics were basically plugged into guitar amps, the amps were then propped up on chairs, and the guitars were amped by their own amps. Joe B. had a mic specifically for his bull fiddle, but on the rare occasions he used an electric bass on tour (Buddy wouldn't let him use an electric in the studio) he just plugged that thing into an amp.
To hear Buddy babbeling in his sleep...lol!! He couldn't sound bad, I agree with you. And the Texas accent....wow.
Sometimes I really envy Maria Elena, you know, except for waking up to finding out that her husband is dead.
I've heard some interviews with J.I. asking why he took up the drums, though of course I can't remember the answer and God forbid I be able to find the website again, but I've always wondered what made Joe B want to play the bull fiddle. I mean, have you seen the size of that thing in pictures?! And this is in pictures we're talking about, never mind how big it would be in real life. I play a tenor saxophone, and I'm known to joke around that I wish I played the flute because let's face it, a tenor is not a small instrument, and it does hurt the shoulders to carry it. But the same reason that Joe B. put up lugging the bull fiddle around is the same reason I would never switch to flute: I love my tenor sax too much.

Yes, I noticed that wonky thing hanging around his neck too...Im postive that was some sort of a primitive mic, but if I were Buddy, I would have stuck with the stand up one, cause the cordless one looks kinda dumb and distracts the audience away from his cute face lol. Ya, Ive seen the 50s speakers,ironically in pics of Buddy, and man that woulda sucked. Mind you, if I went to a Buddy concert I could care less if he played anything at all, as long as I get a hug! (at which time I would die of awe). God, if I were Maria Elena, I would make Buddy talk me to sleep at night, just so I could dream of that hot accent...although I do anyway, cause Buddy sings me to sleep everynight. Funny, I always hated Texan accents before I heard Buddy speak, now I absolutly love them...guess thats the effect Buddy has on people. Actually, I dont think Joe B. liked the bull fiddle. Ive seen pics of him in the years after Buddy death playing behind the Everly Brothers with an electric bass. I think Buddy just wanted the best and purest sound possible, and knew that they only way to get it was through the huge and gaudy(I know I spelt that wrong lol)instrument. Man that guy was a genius....

I just re-watched the first Ed Sullivan apperance where, the boys sing That'll Be The Day, and noticed I guess what you would call a pattern. If you watch Jerry Allison, nearly the whole perfomance, does he really look that interested in what hes doing? I mean hes slouching, has a "im so damn bored" expression on his face, and his drumming movements are slow and lazy, almost like it was an effort to lift the drumsticks. After watching this, I examined other photos of J.I and its always the same, almost like it was painful he was so tired of performing. Buddy and Joe B. on the other hand look like there giving there 100% and having a hell of a time doing it. Was J.I not really into music or performing, or mabey he got stage fright? I dunno, an intersting note though, because wouldnt you think that would have pissed Buddy off, knowing that J.I wasnt really into what he had been working on pretty much his whole life?

Don't be fooled, Jerry Allison was a hell of a drummer---that slouching, bobbing, lazy drumming was his style. And you can catch him grinning and mouthing words to Joe B. sometimes, right in the middle of a performance, making Joe smile---so the boys were having a good time.

For a long time, since the early 1960s, it has been observed that Jerry Allison's drums in Peggy Sue were actually faster than the hammering drums of "Wipe Out" by the Surfaris. And when you listen to the two songs, yeah, Jerry is definitely faster, doing his "para-diddles"...

A "para-diddle," as I understand it, is normally a quick drum roll, like a rimshot, that only lasts a second. You can hear Jerry using a para-diddle on every fourth beat of "Oh Boy," for instance. But, for Peggy Sue, Buddy made a bet with Jerry that he couldn't play an endless stream of para-diddles, from the beginning to the end of the song. Jerry won the bet.

Also, as I think buddy_blue has pointed out before, Jerry was voted, like, the third best rock & roll drummer of all time by Rolling Stone Magazine (was it Rolling Stone or some other mag?)... In any event, J.I. was no slouch.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charles Austin,

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Austin:

A "para-diddle," as I understand it, is normally a quick drum roll, like a rimshot, that only lasts a second.

A paradiddle is a very quick drumroll, alternating left right right right, right left left left, etc. However, all the kids that were trying to emulate J.I. playing Peggy Sue played it hand to hand, which means that they played it left, right, left, right. You get the same sound, but the technique is totally different, and paradiddles are harder.
I don't think you could be anything but an amazing drummer and still keep up with Buddy Holly.

quote:

Funny, I always hated Texan accents before I heard Buddy speak, now I absolutly love them...guess thats the effect Buddy has on people.

I love southern accents. I especially like Buddy's, of course. He had such a sweet sounding voice.

Julie

Well, I wasnt questioning his drumming ability, I know hes one hell of a drummer, I was questioning whether he was all that interested in doing it.Because, ya sometimes you can catch him smiling as he mouths the words, but most of the time, his expression is like, this is too easy or something. He doesnt appear all that into it because mabey itwas too easy....but I somehow find that hard to believe..And yes Julie, Buddys got one hell of a hot voice, but Im still not a big fan of Southern accents, mostly just Buddys, because it was so soft and gentle....

Well, I always got the feeling that Jerry was a very cautious sort of guy, that he wasn't a huge risk-taker like Buddy, ready to stick his neck way out and take the big chances.

For example, in The Real Buddy Holly Story, J.I. remembers talking with Buddy about being a little more conservative, about saving their money and taking it a little bit easier, and Buddy seemed surprised. He told Jerry, What if you died tomorrow? What good would saving your money do for you?

And Jerry agreed, but only after Buddy pointed it out to him---so, I guess Jerry was sort of dragging his heels, while Buddy was 100% proactive. Live for now, because there may not even be a tomorrow. And, for Buddy, there wasn't.

Right, Jerry was concerned about more money, and Buddy said You want a Cadillac? I'll buy you a Cadillac... So, yeah, it was Jerry who wanted to tour, and Buddy who was looking in another direction---in any event, it demonstrates how differently Buddy and Jerry approached the business. Jerry was thinking of gain, and Buddy was thinking about enjoying what they had already, while they could. Makes you wonder if Buddy had a premonition or something.

Call me supersticious, but I personally have always thought Buddy had a premonition, whether it be subconciece, or he be fully aware of it, Buddy knew his life was going to be cut short. Some good examples are, his live for today attitiude and money splurging, the risk taking, because it didnt matter if you totally screwed yourself, you werent going to be around long anyway. His rush to marry Maria Elena, although he could have perhaps just been exited that he met the girl of his dreams, but it was like he had to marry her now. Also, I find alot of Buddys songs to have the feeling of premonition. In The Valley Of Tears, for example, the phrase "But my mind is made up and I must go"....."I want you to take me to where I belong".."Spend the rest of my days without any cares"...."That'll be the day when I die"..And there are many more. Does any one else see a pattern here? Plus, he really really didnt want to go on the Winter Dance Party....he had a bad feeling from the start, and if it wasnt for that damned Norman Petty sending him into the hole, then he would have followed his gut and stayed put. Dammit, Buddy, why couldnt ya just have gone bankrupt or something?

I think about how impatient he was to do things, and how he did all that great music in such a short time, and yes, getting married. I don't know if I would call it a premonition, but maybe he had an inborn sense of urgency or something. He had to quickly do the things he wanted to do, or he would never have the chance. It's a good thing he was the way he was, or we wouldn't have all his wonderful music to remember him by. Of course, we would rather have him still here.
I am inclined to think he had an appointment with destiny that cold night, as sad as that is.

If you want to think about it that way, that he had an appointement with destiny that night, he was also the only one that didn't cheat fate. Without knowing what they were doing, Tommy Allsup and Waylon Jennings cheated fate. They got out of the airplane.
When I first heard the story of J.I. recounting how he wanted to go on tour and Buddy wanting to wait, and he offered to buy J.I. a Cadillac, I thought of how ironic it was that they switched it up in the Buddy Holly Story. The boys are sitting in a car showroom, and Jesse (the drummer) gets mad at Buddy because Buddy is excited about all the performance dates that they have lined up, but Jesse just wants to go back to Lubbock. Oh, if they only knew.

Here's another song with premonition in it, if you will: Brown Eyed Handsome Man. I have heard both one of the takes where Buddy messes up and the released take, so I'm not sure if he changed it on the released take, but when he sings "The beautiful daughter couldn't make up her mind/bewteen a doctor and a lawyer man/her mother told her darlin'/go out and find yourself a brown-eyed handsome man/that's what your daddy was/a brown-eyed handsome man." Note the past tense usage when the mother speaks to her daughter of her father. This could be a long shot, but if Maria Elena's baby was a girl, well, as we all know, Buddy was a brown-eyed handome man himself.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: buddy_blue,

Well, Ive only heard the one take of Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and in this one he says thats what your daddy is, not was. Although, when you take into account the exilerated pace and exited tone of the song, its a very easy mistake to make, and a very creepy one too.Not to mention, Buddys singing so fast and with such excitement that I had to look up the lyrics to know what the hell he was saying. Was Brown Eyed Handsome Man written when Maria Elena was already pregnant? Because, while we all know how unrealiable this source is, in The Buddy Holly Story Maria Elena tells Buddy the babys a girl, and seeing as noone knows just how far along she was, it very well might have been. Good mention though buddy_blue, because the fact that Buddy would make such a relivant mistake is very creepy.When you look at the sheer volume of things Buddy did in his short life, the volumes of records, the marriage, the tours, everything...he knew fate had numbered his days. But when you listen to a track like Take Your Time, "take your time, and take mine too, I have time to spend", well, he did, he had accomplished all that he really wanted. International acclaim and superstardom, to many hit records to speak of, marriage and soon fatherhood, Buddy could afford to relax during his last days. So, perhaps God was not so mercifull as to lets us keep and treasure Buddy for a couple more decades, but he wasnt merciless as he let Buddy accomplish what he had to, what he really wanted to.But then again, when you think of the plans the man had for the future...kinda makes you wonder whether Buddy was struggling to hold on to the little bit of life he had left to live.

He actually did change the tense, listening to the false take and the released version, one says was and the other says is. Brown Eyed Handsome Man wasn't written by Buddy, it was a cover, but artists always take various liberties with others' songs, so he probably changed it up a little bit, including that verb tense.

When playing with Buddy Holly, Joe B. wound up dropping out of school, or, as he puts it, he had his mom sign him out of school cause he was too young to do it himself at the time. So was it Lubbock High that he dropped out of, and did he ever go back and get a diploma of some sort?

Just read something that reminded--more like reinforced--this whole premontion theory. Maria Elena says that when Buddy went to her aunt to recieve her blessing for them to be wed, she said "Why dont you wait a while?" and Buddy replied "No, ma'am, I dont have time..." Apparently that was something Buddy was always saying, Maria even says it may have been his favourite phrase he said it so much. And, hed never say why, just say, I dont have time...ok, thats freakin creepy...